9MM vs .45 Auto and Concealed Carry

The 9MM, The .45 Auto and Concealed Carry:  The FBI Is No Help At All by Brian McCombie

When the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) announced it was returning to 9MM handguns, those who used 9MM’s for their every-day carry firearm acted like the 9MM versus .45 Auto controversy was settled. After all, the FBI–the country’s most respected federal policing agency–had not only selected the 9MM; it had issued a science-heavy explanation of why the 9MM was the best choice over the .45 Auto and the .40 S&W it had been using for a couple decades.

The FBI also stressed that 9MM self-defense rounds had come a long, long way over the last 30 years, and argued the 9MM was actually the equal of the .45 Auto and .40 S&W when it came to “immediate incapacitation.” The 9MM concealed carry crowd jumped on these statements, and proclaimed: the 9MM was the equal of, if not actually better than, the .45 Auto.

The problem with all that? It’s not actually true–not from an ammunition standpoint.

An examination of the FBI’s own report on selecting the 9MM makes it clear the FBI actually choose the 9MM for non-ammunition reasons, including the lower costs associated with running 9MM’s instead of the FBI’s .40 S&W’s–not some huge advantage the 9MM round would provide law enforcement.

The FBI’s report document for choosing the 9MM—widely shared across the Internet—notes that law enforcement officers, “miss between 70 – 80 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident.” Even on the range, officers aren’t very good shots and handgun recoil—or the inability to adjust to it—was pegged as a big reason for the lack of accuracy.

So if most of your shots are misses, especially in an actual shoot-out, and if handgun recoil makes your shooters even less accurate? The solution, according to the FBI, is the “….9mm Luger [because it] offers higher magazine capacities, less recoil, lower cost (both in ammunition and wear on the weapons) and higher functional reliability rates (in FBI weapons).”

FBI agents had carried 9MM’s in the past. But during the infamous 1986 Miami Florida shoot out with a pair of heavily armed bank robbers, the 9MM’s used by FBI agents fared so poorly, the 9MM round was cited as partially to blame for two FBI agents dead and a third wounded. The FBI went in search of a more powerful round, eventually selecting the .40 S&W.

But how to get around the fact that the .45 Auto uses a larger, heavier bullet that (generally speaking) delivers a larger foot-pounds-of-energy wallop than its 9MM cousin?

The FBI did that by insisting there is no such thing as stopping power. Got that? Stopping power does not exist! According to the FBI document, “Handgun stopping power is simply a myth.”

Ah, the magic of making your own definitions to fit your own argument. The FBI defines “stopping power” as one-shot and an assailant is down and done. In the FBI’s terminology, real stopping power would be “immediate incapacitation,” which is only achieved through a hit to the brain or spine. So, the FBI notes, a hit from a 9MM, .40 S&W or a .45 Auto all have the same effect: bad guy down.

The FBI then indulges in some sleight of hand in discussing the “medical facts” relating to handgun wounds. According to the FBI document, “Due to the elastic nature of most human tissue and the low velocity of handgun projectiles relative to rifle projectiles, it has long been established by medical professionals…that the damage along a wound path visible at autopsy or during surgery cannot be distinguished between the common handgun calibers used in law enforcement.”

It continues, “That is to say an operating room surgeon or Medical Examiner cannot distinguish the difference between wounds caused by .35 to .45 caliber projectiles.”

However. The research cited by the FBI was from 1989 medical studies. These studies examined wounds made from the same relatively ineffective rounds used by the FBI and other agencies in the past.

Not by wounds caused by the more effective self-defense rounds available today.

Today’s 9MM self-defense rounds are better than full-metal jacket and hollow-point rounds used by law enforcement 30 and 40 years ago. But so, too, are their .45 Auto brethren.

Take a look at two current rounds on the market today, Federal’s HST Premium Personal Defense, and Winchester’s Defender line.

9MM Federal HST Premium

9MM Federal HST Premium

According to data supplied by Federal, the 9MM HST round with a 150 grain bullet, and fired from a Glock 43, showed an average diameter expansion to .607”, with 13.7” of penetration, when fired into bare 10% ordnance gelatin. When the gel was covered in heavy clothing, a .597” diameter and 13.25” penetration.

From a standard-sized 1911, the .45 Auto HST firing a 230 grain bullet averaged an expansion to .926” diameter and 12.85” penetration in bare gel, and .831” diameter and 13.35” penetration in heavy clothing.

.45 HST after ballistics testing (Comparison to 9MM)

.45 HST after ballistics testing (Comparison to 9MM)

The same general pattern exists the Winchester Defender loads (data supplied by Winchester): the 45 Auto 230 grain Defender penetrates 12.2” and expands to .84” in bare gel; the 9mm 147 grain Defender penetrates 15.8” and expands to .58”.

Of note: both ammo makers used the standard FBI Protocol for gel testing these rounds.

No one in their right mind wants to get drilled with any of the aforementioned rounds. But the laws of physics suggest very clearly that the heavier bullet, with larger expansion, has to do more damage than the lighter, less expanding bullet.

The FBI would have done a better service to both law enforcement officers and concealed carry holders had they admitted they chose the 9MM despite it offering less knock down than the .45 Auto and the many self-defense loads for it on the market today.

But, they didn’t.

Build your own 9MM or .40CAL polymer pistol here with AWC.

Gun in Underwear is a Killer


Photo:  Pittsburgh Police Dept.

We’ve all been there. “My underwear is killing me!” Those words have been said or thought by countless people fixing a wedgie or other form of uncomfortable thunder down under. This common problem can be especially deadly for those who choose the gun in underwear method instead of safely and securely carrying it in a Kydex Holster.

This painful truth of an underwear adjustment just became reality again near Pittsburgh.

What makes for a totally strange but true story is this fact. The gun in underwear tragedy didn’t kill the 19-year old carrying the firearm. Instead, he allegedly killed another 19-year old sitting in front of him.

Eietyoung Kemp (pictured above) of East Allegheny, PA is now in the Allegheny County Jail after turning himself in to police last night following the shooting death of Robert Alston from the North Side over the weekend. Court records show Kemp has been charged with homicide, carrying a firearm without a license, recklessly endangering another person, and tampering with evidence.

Police were called to the emergency room of UMPC Magee-Womens Hospital on Saturday night, after friends dropped off Robert Alston with a single gunshot wound to the torso. The young man was pronounced dead at 11:49 p.m.

The criminal complaint says this is what happened.

Eietyoung Kemp, Alston, Justice Johnson, and Dominick Hall were in a car together on their way to a party. Kemp told detectives just before the four arrived, he was sitting in the back seat directly behind Alston on the passenger’s side. As he was attempting to adjust the gun in his underwear he said his finger accidentally pulled the trigger and the gun went off.

The bullet went through the seat and in through the back of Robert Alston. When Alston began screaming in pain, Kemp ran away. He went back to the North Side. While crossing the Roberto Clemente Bridge, he tossed the gun into the Allegheny River below.

The next day, police lifted fingerprints from the car the young men were driving when the shooting took place. Fingerprints matched Eietyoung Kemp. That same day, the suspect arrived at police headquarters to report his role in the gun in underwear shooting which he claimed was an accident. He was released on Sunday, and formally surrendered last night.

Jailed for Giving Suicidal Man a Loaded Gun


Photo: Cache County Jail

He doesn’t seem anything like Dr. Jack Kevorkian. That’s what a district judge thought. Now a Logan, Utah man will be doing time for giving a loaded gun to a young man he knew was suicidal.

48-year old David Thomas Schofield (pictured above) pleaded guilty to illegal possession of a firearm by a restricted person, a second-degree felony. He was a felon from a 1997 conviction in Arizona for aggravated assault. Schofield also pleaded guilty to negligent homicide, a class A misdemeanor. 1st District Judge Kevin Allen sentenced him to one to 15 years in prison. In exchange for the plea, prosecutors agreed not to pursue additional charges against Schofield.

Back in June, 20-year old Bradley Stewart Wenneberg has been battling depression and suicidal thoughts. He went to Schofield’s home in Logan, Utah seeking help. Court testimony says Schofield handed Wenneberg a loaded gun as he sat on the couch and told him, “’If you’re going to do it, then pull the (expletive) trigger.’”

Police say, Wenneberg took the .38-caliber handgun from Schofield. Then, in front of his girlfriend and best friend, Ben Mackey, he put the gun to his temple and pulled the trigger killing himself.

Mackey told the judge, “I trusted him, and Bradley trusted him as well, and he handed him a loaded gun.” “Your actions caused the death of a troubled but innocent man,” 1st District Judge Kevin Allen told Schofield. “I can’t even imagine what was going through your mind,” said Judge Allen.

Schofield pleaded for probation. He said, “It was a bad judgment call due to a bad week prior, and it just kept building and building.” He said he was clouded by his own mental struggles and made a mistake.

Police say Schofield originally told them while he was using the restroom, Wenneberg took his gun from a bedroom and shot himself. The witnesses reported a much different account of the shooting insisting Schofield urged their friend to pull the trigger.

The judge said, “Mr. Schofield, you and you alone are the reason that young man died that night, and you and you alone are the reason you will be spending up to 15 years in prison.” He also ordered Schofield to pay $7,500 in funeral expenses to the victim’s family, plus ongoing counseling expenses for the parents, as well as the two friends who were witnesses of the shooting.

Brad Wenneberg, Sr., the young man’s father pushed for the maximum sentence saying to Schofield in the courtroom, “You gave him a gun. How stupid can you be, dude? You took my kid from me.”

Cell Phone Shoots Gun in Road Rage Incident


Photo: KRQE 13

An Albuquerque, New Mexico man is making news. It comes after shooting a gun with his cell phone during a road rage incident. It happened Sunday afternoon on I-25 near the spectacular Sandia Peak Tramway which stretches from the Sandia Mountains to the city with breathtaking aerial views. Yet it was the driving on the freeway which took this man’s breath away.

He told his story to Channel 13 KRQE-TV News in Albuquerque. Why he went to the media, we don’t know. Reportedly, he was too shaken to identify himself and didn’t want to show his face on camera.

The man claimed a confrontation with the driver of a gold BMW 745i began as soon as he merged onto the I-25 freeway behind a semi-tractor trailer.  He said, “Next thing I know that BMW is right on my tail honking at me. He kicks it into high gear and hauls butt past me.”

He said once the gold BMW was in front of him, the driver kept slamming on the brakes and would not let him pass. “We’re on a freeway, you can’t just sit there at 10 miles an hour, and he did this like five more times. I mean I just screeched to almost a stand still.”

The man claims he then used his cell phone in an attempt to get video and photos of the BMW and its license plate. For some reason, he then took the opportunity to pull up alongside the driver’s side of the BMW. Here he got his “money shot” before exiting the freeway to call 911.

The Bernalillo County Sheriff’s Office says the video led them to the suspect. They say 44-year old Marty Herrera confessed to taking part in the road rage incident. The image on camera shows him holding a gun and pointing it toward the camera. He must have been doing some serious knee driving on I-25 as the image shows no hands near the steering wheel. The passenger seen in the front seat is looking ahead.

Online court documents show the suspect, Marty Herrera has multiple citations for speeding, but no prior criminal record. He was charged with felony aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. He surrendered his firearm to detectives and was released yesterday on a $15,000 bond.

“Obviously this individual was so upset,” said Bernalillo County Sheriff’s Office Sgt. Aaron Williamson. “A split second decision, he makes that choice to pull the trigger, and now we have a fatality or a serious injury. There’s no reason to go to prison for somebody cutting you off in traffic.”

There’s also no reason to go to the morgue armed with only a cell phone in an unexpected gunfight. That’s if you can legally do anything about it.

A road rage incident is not planned like a trip. It can rear its ugly head at any moment, during any stretch of the highways and byways of America. Modern day driving is just one of the real-life scenarios in which a firearm can really save yours.

Obama Staffer Barvetta Singletary Facing Gun Charges


Photo: Barvetta Silngletary. SC Now


Welcome to where TMZ meets C-SPAN. A President Obama staffer is now facing gun charges. Police say the domestic violence dispute stems from a lover’s quarrel between Barvetta Singletary and her boyfriend. He happens to be a U.S. Capitol Police Officer.

For more than a year, Barvetta Singletary has served as a Special Assistant to the President and House Legislative Affairs Liaison.

A White House spokesperson released this statement about the Obama Staffer:

“We are aware of the matter and have temporarily place the employee in question on unpaid leave and revoked her access to the complex until we have more information. We will take additional actions as needed.”

According to the charging documents with the Prince George’s County, Maryland, Police Department, 37-year old Barvetta Singletary sent her boyfriend a text asking him to come to her Upper Marlboro, Maryland home for sex. Like just about any guy would, he agreed.

Soon after they had sex, investigators say Singletary confronted the boyfriend. She wanted to know about other women he was dating. She led them outside. They went to the boyfriend’s car and both got inside. Then she asked to see his cell phones. He refused. Allegedly, Ms. Singletary then reached into his bag, grabbed two cell phones and the U.S. Capitol Police Officer’s service weapon. It was a .40 caliber Glock 23.

Police say Barvetta Singletary took the items and ran back into her home. The victim went after her pleading for her to give back his weapon. She would not comply. Instead, she demanded the passwords to his cell phones.

The arrest warrant says after the boyfriend refused, Singletary pulled the gun out of its holster, pointed it at him and said, “You taught me how to use this. Don’t think I won’t use it.” After he again refused to give her the passwords, she told him, “Your phone is more important than me holding the gun on you.”

Police say Singletary then pointed the firearm in the victim’s direction. Then she pulled the trigger and fired off one round. The victim ran away from the home, and called 911. He also told police he witnessed Ms. Singletary wiping down his gun with a towel to remove her fingerprints.

Barvetta Singletary was arrested at her home without incident. President Obama cannot be happy about the story of her wrongly bearing Arms with a U.S. Capitol Police Officer’s gun. Her right to work in the Obama White House may soon be infringed.

Ferguson Shooting Provides New Ammo for Conflict


Photo: KMOV

Anyone legally carrying a firearm near Ferguson, Missouri, may need it today even more than usual. The same could easily be said if you are in other cities across the country where racial tensions are running high. It’s all because new ammo was loaded in another Ferguson shooting by police late last night.

This morning, an 18-year old man is in a local hospital listed in critical, unstable condition following surgery. He is identified as Tyrone Harris, Jr. St. Louis County police officers had believed he was armed when they were tracking him at the planned peaceful demonstrations on the anniversary of the death of Michael Brown. Harris’ father told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch newspaper his son and Michael Brown “were real close.”

The death of Brown on August 9, 2014 was the Ferguson shooting which sparked outrage nationwide. The African-American teen was fatally shot by Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson, a Caucasian. This incident launched the “Black Lives Matter” movement.

Police say last night’s violence erupted at about 11:15 local time on a rainy night. It was the third consecutive night of organized demonstrations, but the first where some police were dressed in riot gear, including bullet-proof vests and helmets with shields.

Reports say only about 100 people remained in the planned protests, and were actually outnumbered by members of the media at that point of the evening. The situation escalated when the crowd began blocking traffic and confronting police, including a brick and glass bottle being thrown at police.

In other incidents, two teens were hospitalized with gunshot wounds involving a drive-by shooting. A local member of the St. Louis media was also hospitalized after he was assaulted and robbed by several suspects.

The main event came when one of at least two suspects opened fire on plainclothes detectives at a gathering along West Florissant Avenue. An unmarked van activated its emergency lights and approached the suspect. Police Chief Jon Belmar described the shootout that followed as “remarkable.” He said in the span of roughly 45 seconds, a gunfire exchange took place in which up to 50 shots were fired.

The van was struck by multiple gunshots. Detectives inside returned fire before pursuing the man on foot. Chief Belmar said the suspect again pulled the trigger shooting at police. All four detectives returned fire leaving the suspect with multiple gunshot wounds.

At a media gathering earlier this morning to share details of the latest Ferguson shooting, Chief Belmar described those in the gunfight with police. “They were criminals,” he said. “They weren’t protesters.”

The chief said the wounded suspect, Tyrone Harris, Jr., had in his possession a semi-automatic 9MM handgun which was stolen last year in Cape Girardeau, Missouri.

None of the officers involved in last night’s Ferguson shooting were seriously injured. All had between 6 and 12 years of experience on the job. In standard procedure, they have been placed on administrative leave.

Their services might be sorely missed today in another planned day of “civil disobedience.”

Naked George Cody Thornock Lucky He Wasn’t Shot


Photo: Ada County Sheriff’s Office – George Cody Thornock


Getting arrested was “lucky” for a naked man running around Meridian, Idaho this week. He’s even more lucky he didn’t get shot.

With a population around 75,000 residents, Meridian, Idaho is the third largest city in the state. Located about a 15-minute drive west of Boise, it got a bit noisy there in the early morning hours on Monday.

At 6:03 a.m. before many people were starting their work week, Meridian police received a call with a report of a naked man attacking a woman in the restroom of a Maverik gas station near Ustick and Ten Mile Road.

Officers quickly responded to the scene. But as is so often the case with relying on 9-1-1 for emergency assistance, by the time officers arrived at the gas station, the incident was over.

The woman was lucky, too. She was somehow able to fight off the suspect as he tried to pull her shirt over her head. She screamed for help. Her 17-year old son scared away the suspect who exited through an emergency door and ran off into the nearby neighborhood.

Meridian police knew the naked man barely got away.

They established a perimeter around the area and began searching for the suspect. Police say about 7:20 a.m., they began receiving multiple reports from citizens calling for assistance because a naked man was entering their homes.

Officers were able to successfully track down the suspect. He was taken into custody in a garage. He was identified as 23-year old George Cody Thornock. The alleged naked man acting crazy was taken to a local hospital under the suspicion he was high on meth.

After getting a hospital gown, the naked George Cody Thornock was given an Ada County Jail uniform charged with battery with the intent to commit a serious felony. He was also facing charges for the home break-ins.

Sarah Freckleton, an employee who works the overnight shift at the Maverick told KBOI in Boise, “It’s scary, especially when you work graveyards, you’re there all alone at night. So knowing there’s someone who can just come in and run around naked I guess, that’s kind of awkward and weird. I really don’t know how I would handle that situation.”

Overnight retail clerks could handle a situation like that with much more confidence by carrying a firearm, and being trained on how to use it properly to defend themselves and their customers. The woman who was attacked could have also had much better luck if she had a firearm to protect herself. And even if you live in suburban Idaho, if you leave your doors unlocked, you’d be better off with a gun for your own homeland security.

Meanwhile, when he comes down from his alleged high, the suspect may realize just how lucky he was that going around buck naked trying to attack a woman in a public restroom, and barging in on people’s homes didn’t get him shot. It’s surprising some law-abiding Idaho citizen exercising their right to bear Arms didn’t send the naked nuisance on a trip to the Meridian morgue.


New York Wins Toy Guns Fight


Michael Bloomberg’s beloved New York is celebrating its newest…and youngest gunfighting victory. This one is over toy guns.

The New York Attorney General’s Office led by Eric T. Schneiderman has reached a settlement with the largest toy retailers in the country. The whole fight was to keep what are being called “realistic toy guns” off the shelves of stores across the Empire State.

You might recall the big trigger for the toy guns fight came last November when a 12-year old boy, Tamir Rice, was shot and killed by a Cleveland police officer who allegedly mistook a pellet gun for a real firearm. New York (along with Florida, Indiana, Massachusetts, Nebraska, Ohio, and Washington), was one of 7 states who then introduced legislation to alter or establish toy gun laws. A handful of states, along with Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico already have restrictive toy gun laws.

Last year, Schneiderman made it widely known he was not playing around on the issue. In the heart of the toy shopping season last December, the New York Attorney General’s office fired off cease-and-desist letters to the toy gun selling leaders Amazon, Walmart, Sears, and Kmart, as well as smaller online toy retailers. The office claims there have been at least 63 shootings in New York because of toy or imitation guns since 1994. At least eight of them involved fatalities.

Another kind of ammo was New York claimed they uncovered more than 6,400 illegal toy gun sales were completed statewide from 2012 to 2014. Most were sold online and shipped to customers in the state. The financial civil penalties of around $300,000 are to be disclosed as part of the announcement. Reports say Walmart is paying the biggest fine, while Amazon had the most violations.

As part of the settlements, the retailers agreed to only sell toy guns in New York which are in compliance with the more strict New York City standards. The Big Apple toy gun laws prohibit sales of black, blue, silver or aluminum imitations. Among the restrictions there, all toy guns must be brightly colored or translucent. Whereas federal law requires toy guns have an orange strip near the tip.

The New York Attorney General says it has two main goals with this toy guns settlement:

  1. To help avoid the split-second mistakes by police involving realistic looking toy guns.
  2. To cut down on real crimes committed using realistic looking toy guns.







Vietnam Vet Don Rogers Guns Down Armed Robber


Don Rogers is a U.S. Army Vietnam Veteran. Making his home in Southern Georgia, he thought his days of being involved in battle were long behind him. Don’t for a minute take it that means he doesn’t remain vigilant, and ready with a firearm. He most certainly does.

To Sycamore, Georgia, a town usually free and clear of the national headlines. Folks like it that way. The reported population of 711 covers roughly one square mile.

A few days ago, it was supposed to be just another day around Sycamore for Rogers. However, innocently walking into a gas station to get change for a $20 bill went and changed everything. He said, “I wish the day could’ve went by without this happening. I just did what I had to do.”

Don, that’s what heroes commonly say. That’s what they commonly do.

Rogers carries a gun. He explains even though he was bearing Arms, he felt fear once he knew there was an armed robbery in progress. Don’s bravery and instincts took control. “I heard somebody say ‘put the money in the bag’. So I looked up and I seen this gentleman holding a pistol on the clerk. And when I did, he looked over at me and turned my way. I fired a shot. And he grabbed his side. Then I fired two more shots before he got out the door.”

The 18-year old suspect, Devin Burton, ran out empty handed. He hopped into the getaway car police say was driven by 17-year old Marleigh Agner. The pair didn’t get more than three miles. They were forced to stop along Denham Road, and pull the trigger on a 9-1-1 call. Young Mr. Burton’s two gunshot wounds courtesy of the armed citizen were severe.

Agner got put into handcuffs. Burton got put into an ambulance and taken to a Macon hospital where he was listed in critical condition. Hardeep Benipal, the gas station clerk believes his life may have been saved by the heroic customer. Rogers adds, “I was hoping nothing like this would ever happen, but I was glad I had my weapon with me.”


Photo: WALB-TV. Don Rogers on left. Hardeep Benipal on right.


Don Rogers says believes every legal gun owner should carry a firearm at all times. You won’t get any argument from the local sheriff.

“People are just sick of people running them up. And robbing, and stealing, and pillaging, and people are tired of it,” said Turner County, Georgia Sheriff Andy Hester. “These people that’ll go out and do this kind of stuff need to realize- it ain’t always gonna fare to their favor, just because they’re a predator.”

Thank you Don Rogers for your courage and service both abroad and on the homeland.

Marion County Deputy’s Gun Goes for a Ride


Here is something to remember. It’s probably fact far more than fiction. In today’s multi-tasking world, we all forget where we put things, right? One day it could be your smart phone. Another time you could misplace your wallet or purse, car keys, or glasses, just to name to a few possibilities. But how often do you forget where you leave a loaded firearm?

Hopefully, the answer is “not too often.”

Law enforcement professionals have bad days, too. They forget important things, too. Here’s proof.

To Marion County, Oregon. It’s located south of Portland, and is home to the state capital of Salem. One week ago on July 13, 2015, a deputy in the Marion County Sheriff’s Office somehow lost contact with his service gun while on the job. The night shift deputy reported the gun missing around 4:00 a.m. He was not sure if the gun was misplaced or stolen.

Sgt. Don Parise explained the deputy has a take home patrol car. “He has a routine when he gets home where he offloads his gun, and it wasn’t there. He said he may have put it on the top of his car and drove away. He was also mowing the grass at one point, and his garage was open.”

Parise said the firearm was a .45 caliber Glock pistol. It was fully loaded with one round in the chamber. This particular gun did not have a safety.

The good news is the scary story has a happy ending.

Luckily, the missing handgun didn’t wind up in the wrong hands of someone with bad intentions for bearing Arms. A couple of days later, it was dropped off at the Oregon State Police office in Albany.

Sgt. Jeff Stutrud told the Statesman Journal newspaper, the missing firearm was found by a construction worker along Interstate 5 near Market Street in Salem. The .45-caliber gun had some scrape marks and suffered other damage. Fortunately, when it was recovered, it still had the same number of cartridges as when the deputy reported it missing.

The Marion County Sheriff’s Office is conducting an investigation into the matter of the Glock gone awol. “We’re still looking into how it got to where it was found,” said Sgt. Stutrud. Anyone who has information about the deputy’s missing gun are urged to call (503) 588-5032.